Comments on: Sparrowhawk with its talons round a blackbird http://birdtablenews.com/2009/01/sparrowhawk-with-its-talons-round-a-blackbird/ A place to chat about all types of birds and also exchange bird feeding and other wild bird advice Fri, 11 May 2012 21:44:29 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.4 By: mehrdad http://birdtablenews.com/2009/01/sparrowhawk-with-its-talons-round-a-blackbird/comment-page-1/#comment-553 mehrdad Fri, 19 Mar 2010 20:40:23 +0000 http://birdtablenews.com/?p=430#comment-553 it is not known to science how birds organize in flight, when it comes to some lager birds they have an temporery leader, but they change, since the one in the front have to labour a lot. small birds dont have leaders, before people thought that, from human logic it made sense, but we have to remember that our logic is very small compared to lifes, but now we know that we dont know. nobody knows how they find from one place flying by night to another far away, but some kind of magnetic field reading is today supossed. birds like starlings dont have leaders but they syncronize so amazingly and the only explenation science have is that they "feel" eachothers movements. and people, if you want to worry about something, dont worry about how life and nature does, it has always done it long before we were here, worry about what your living is doing to the environment and extinction of species allover the planet, SH for exemple 30 years ago..........in nature animals only kill for living, we are killing, to extinction, just for lyxius living. let natur be alone if you can not love all of it.... it is not known to science how birds organize in flight, when it comes to some lager birds they have an temporery leader, but they change, since the one in the front have to labour a lot. small birds dont have leaders, before people thought that, from human logic it made sense, but we have to remember that our logic is very small compared to lifes, but now we know that we dont know. nobody knows how they find from one place flying by night to another far away, but some kind of magnetic field reading is today supossed. birds like starlings dont have leaders but they syncronize so amazingly and the only explenation science have is that they “feel” eachothers movements. and people, if you want to worry about something, dont worry about how life and nature does, it has always done it long before we were here, worry about what your living is doing to the environment and extinction of species allover the planet, SH for exemple 30 years ago……….in nature animals only kill for living, we are killing, to extinction, just for lyxius living. let natur be alone if you can not love all of it….

]]> By: Trish http://birdtablenews.com/2009/01/sparrowhawk-with-its-talons-round-a-blackbird/comment-page-1/#comment-543 Trish Wed, 17 Mar 2010 11:31:22 +0000 http://birdtablenews.com/?p=430#comment-543 HiShell, I agree that RSPCA inspectors are very knowledgeable. I take it for granted that starlings fly together in perfect symnetary and then land with such organisation. That is why it is so strange about these other starlings crash landing. I think your suggestion that they were following a leading bird is a really sensible one. Then if the lead bird or another panicked it would cause such confusion. It would be like aeroplanes losing their radar. You described frightened fleeing birds really well. I think here in England that a sparrowhawk is the most likely answer. But we will never know, but your comments have made it more understandable. When I first heard about the starlings falling to the ground and dying it seemed very strange, but in context of a birds life and its connection with other birds and trying to flee from danger it makes more sense. Does that make sense! They seemed very panicked and it looked strange seeing a Starling looking so alarmed so I am wondering about the news story theory. HiShell, I agree that RSPCA inspectors are very knowledgeable. I take it for granted that starlings fly together in perfect symnetary and then land with such organisation. That is why it is so strange about these other starlings crash landing.

I think your suggestion that they were following a leading bird is a really sensible one. Then if the lead bird or another panicked it would cause such confusion. It would be like aeroplanes losing their radar. You described frightened fleeing birds really well. I think here in England that a sparrowhawk is the most likely answer. But we will never know, but your comments have made it more understandable. When I first heard about the starlings falling to the ground and dying it seemed very strange, but in context of a birds life and its connection with other birds and trying to flee from danger it makes more sense. Does that make sense!

They seemed very panicked and it looked strange seeing a Starling looking so alarmed so I am wondering about the news story theory.

]]> By: Shell http://birdtablenews.com/2009/01/sparrowhawk-with-its-talons-round-a-blackbird/comment-page-1/#comment-540 Shell Sun, 14 Mar 2010 18:12:21 +0000 http://birdtablenews.com/?p=430#comment-540 That's the thing isn't it? However, I would have thought the RSPCA would be quite knowledgeable about these kind of things. If that was the likely cause wouldn't it have crossed their minds? I watched thousands of Starlings on Spring Watch a few years ago - you may have seen it - when they all were settling to roost for the night. They all landed together without a hitch, it seems. Maybe the ones that crash landed were following a leading bird or they were panicking. We were out the other day in the car and saw a few Starlings panicking trying to get away from a SH in a field. They flew right across the road and dived into a hedge, only there was another SH not far from that as well. They seemed very panicked and it looked strange seeing a Starling looking so alarmed so I am wondering about the news story theory. That’s the thing isn’t it? However, I would have thought the RSPCA would be quite knowledgeable about these kind of things. If that was the likely cause wouldn’t it have crossed their minds?

I watched thousands of Starlings on Spring Watch a few years ago – you may have seen it – when they all were settling to roost for the night. They all landed together without a hitch, it seems.

Maybe the ones that crash landed were following a leading bird or they were panicking. We were out the other day in the car and saw a few Starlings panicking trying to get away from a SH in a field. They flew right across the road and dived into a hedge, only there was another SH not far from that as well.

They seemed very panicked and it looked strange seeing a Starling looking so alarmed so I am wondering about the news story theory.

]]> By: Trish http://birdtablenews.com/2009/01/sparrowhawk-with-its-talons-round-a-blackbird/comment-page-1/#comment-539 Trish Sun, 14 Mar 2010 17:49:12 +0000 http://birdtablenews.com/?p=430#comment-539 The mystery deepens. I would agree that an RSPCA inspector is very knowledgeable and would know the cause of these bird deaths. Reading through again I don't think Mehr said that the birds flew into a power cable I think she said they were disturbed by one. Thinking about it I am not sure what that exactly means. Does it mean that something in the power cable disturbed their navigation system and they could not navigate any more . Did it mean that they flew into a cable. I wonder what proof there is. I just hope it doesn't happen again and that this is just a one off. There could be one reason for what happened in Sweden and a different one for here in England. I wonder if we will ever know. precisely. I wish we knew. Trisha The mystery deepens. I would agree that an RSPCA inspector is very knowledgeable and would know the cause of these bird deaths.

Reading through again I don’t think Mehr said that the birds flew into a power cable I think she said they were disturbed by one.

Thinking about it I am not sure what that exactly means. Does it mean that something in the power cable disturbed their navigation system and they could not navigate any more . Did it mean that they flew into a cable. I wonder what proof there is.

I just hope it doesn’t happen again and that this is just a one off.

There could be one reason for what happened in Sweden and a different one for here in England. I wonder if we will ever know. precisely. I wish we knew. Trisha

]]> By: Shell http://birdtablenews.com/2009/01/sparrowhawk-with-its-talons-round-a-blackbird/comment-page-1/#comment-538 Shell Sun, 14 Mar 2010 16:59:10 +0000 http://birdtablenews.com/?p=430#comment-538 It was a RSPCA animal welfare office who suggested the 75 starlings were chased by a possible Sparrow Hawk. I would have thought due to extensive training the officer would have a clue whether the birds had flew into a power cable so may be her suggestion was right. It was a RSPCA animal welfare office who suggested the 75 starlings were chased by a possible Sparrow Hawk. I would have thought due to extensive training the officer would have a clue whether the birds had flew into a power cable so may be her suggestion was right.

]]> By: millie http://birdtablenews.com/2009/01/sparrowhawk-with-its-talons-round-a-blackbird/comment-page-1/#comment-536 millie Sun, 14 Mar 2010 15:32:30 +0000 http://birdtablenews.com/?p=430#comment-536 facts please not stories facts please not stories

]]> By: Trish http://birdtablenews.com/2009/01/sparrowhawk-with-its-talons-round-a-blackbird/comment-page-1/#comment-530 Trish Thu, 11 Mar 2010 21:44:18 +0000 http://birdtablenews.com/?p=430#comment-530 Hi Mehr, Good to hear from you again. It is true we are all born to die - and it is natural. Amazing that the same thing has happened in Sweden with a lot of birds being killed. I hope it is only going to be a rare occurance - cables are everywhere aren't they? In Sweden just on one week more birds in trafic than several SH consume during their life! Wow! That is something to think about. You say things so well. We cannot understand all of nature as we only see fragments of it. You have been studying sparrowhawks all winter in Sweden? Eagles eat sparrowhawks, most of them starved - that is really interesting. Nature does work, but humans do intervene in nature and that is when things get tricky. Here in England sparrowhawks seem to be on the increase and there is no doubt that they do eat garden birds. I don't think any sparrowhawk in England would die of starvation, but i am not an expert and could be wrong. Will ponder on what you have said. Thanks again for taking the time to share this with us. Trisha Hi Mehr, Good to hear from you again. It is true we are all born to die – and it is natural. Amazing that the same thing has happened in Sweden with a lot of birds being killed. I hope it is only going to be a rare occurance – cables are everywhere aren’t they?
In Sweden just on one week more birds in trafic than several SH consume during their life! Wow! That is something to think about.

You say things so well. We cannot understand all of nature as we only see fragments of it.
You have been studying sparrowhawks all winter in Sweden? Eagles eat sparrowhawks, most of them starved – that is really interesting.

Nature does work, but humans do intervene in nature and that is when things get tricky. Here in England sparrowhawks seem to be on the increase and there is no doubt that they do eat garden birds. I don’t think any sparrowhawk in England would die of starvation, but i am not an expert and could be wrong.

Will ponder on what you have said. Thanks again for taking the time to share this with us. Trisha

]]> By: Shell http://birdtablenews.com/2009/01/sparrowhawk-with-its-talons-round-a-blackbird/comment-page-1/#comment-527 Shell Thu, 11 Mar 2010 14:12:17 +0000 http://birdtablenews.com/?p=430#comment-527 I have seen a SH give chase to a Green Finch. They will chase if they think they can catch something. More times I have seen them perch and watch and then swoop but on occasions I have seen them give chase. I don't know what to make about what happened to the Starlings but it sounds very strange. I thought birds are usually resistant to power cables since they will perch on them. I don't see feeding the garden birds as feeding a SH because I temporarily stopped feeding the small birds when the SH was around and then resumed when it went elsewhere. You can look at each side of the argument but people generally want to maintain numbers of songbirds. The Buzzard hunts but I haven't been too bothered about it since it hasn't really bothered my garden birds. And sure the Buzzard needs to eat too. Thanks for the blog Trish, it's really interesting. I have seen a SH give chase to a Green Finch. They will chase if they think they can catch something. More times I have seen them perch and watch and then swoop but on occasions I have seen them give chase.

I don’t know what to make about what happened to the Starlings but it sounds very strange. I thought birds are usually resistant to power cables since they will perch on them.

I don’t see feeding the garden birds as feeding a SH because I temporarily stopped feeding the small birds when the SH was around and then resumed when it went elsewhere.

You can look at each side of the argument but people generally want to maintain numbers of songbirds. The Buzzard hunts but I haven’t been too bothered about it since it hasn’t really bothered my garden birds. And sure the Buzzard needs to eat too.

Thanks for the blog Trish, it’s really interesting.

]]> By: mehrdad http://birdtablenews.com/2009/01/sparrowhawk-with-its-talons-round-a-blackbird/comment-page-1/#comment-526 mehrdad Thu, 11 Mar 2010 13:49:47 +0000 http://birdtablenews.com/?p=430#comment-526 I saw the article, nfortunatly it shows hom unfamiliar and ignorant people are of the nature. SH dont give full chase and dont hunt upp in open air, it is very rare since they are not made for this, but falcons are. the SH usualy hunts stalking and surprising close to the ground. it is sad that life pases, like the 75 starlings, but as i said, we are all born to die, and it is natural. now as to the 75 starlings. Something similiar happend here in southern sweden, after a while the only understadble reason was an power cable a bit from there that likly disturbed the birds navigations. we are disturbing nature in so many ways and kill so much life in waste for our relaxing lyxuis wayof leaving. do you know how many birds die of trafic and poision everyday?? just on one week in sweden it dies more birds in trafic than several SH consume during their life! in england and some other parts of the world there have been some fast increase of SH and some falcons, this is becuse of the regulations made for pecticides(wich ofcourse killed a lot of small birds as well) and more understanding for the birds which have led to less killing of them by man. but it is still not back to how many there used to be. and sometimes when a population is getting back it takes a while before stabilizing. I asure you that nature has it's way that is beyond understanding for, we just get fragments of it, let it have it's course.....you see when you feed the birds, just see it as you feed also another(SH). when it comes to the swifts and swallos and the SH, all birds are borne with good adaptation to the life they are supposed to live and have good warning systems and are able to outfly our outwith their chaser, I guess you never encountered a SH alone and attacked by titmouses or blackbirds(i saw one yesterday) they are not nice, they actually call up more and more smallbirds and hack it and chase it away. you see in nature there are no predators that dont gett "paid" back from their prey, and no prey that is totaly hlepless, that is not how nature/life works, all is there for a reason, for this reasons. I think it is great that you feed the small birds, why cant you take under your wings to love and feel that you contribute in feeding another of natures childs?? this winter i have been studying sparrowhawks that overwintered here in a forest close by, imagine out of 21 how many are alive now?? one, a old female, of the rest a couble were poisoned, a great owl(eagle owl) caught some, a goshawk male some others; but most of them died of starvation. love life and all parts of it, even the parts you dont understand, we are not meant to understand all, but nature knows it's own will, respect that, and so respect life. hope someday you can see the wonderfull creator that also the SH is, and that you see clearly that values as cruel, bad and evil don't exist in nature, just in human life and human world, nature IS..... I saw the article, nfortunatly it shows hom unfamiliar and ignorant people are of the nature.
SH dont give full chase and dont hunt upp in open air, it is very rare since they are not made for this, but falcons are. the SH usualy hunts stalking and surprising close to the ground.
it is sad that life pases, like the 75 starlings, but as i said, we are all born to die, and it is natural. now as to the 75 starlings. Something similiar happend here in southern sweden, after a while the only understadble reason was an power cable a bit from there that likly disturbed the birds navigations. we are disturbing nature in so many ways and kill so much life in waste for our relaxing lyxuis wayof leaving.

do you know how many birds die of trafic and poision everyday?? just on one week in sweden it dies more birds in trafic than several SH consume during their life!

in england and some other parts of the world there have been some fast increase of SH and some falcons, this is becuse of the regulations made for pecticides(wich ofcourse killed a lot of small birds as well) and more understanding for the birds which have led to less killing of them by man. but it is still not back to how many there used to be. and sometimes when a population is getting back it takes a while before stabilizing.

I asure you that nature has it’s way that is beyond understanding for, we just get fragments of it, let it have it’s course…..you see when you feed the birds, just see it as you feed also another(SH). when it comes to the swifts and swallos and the SH, all birds are borne with good adaptation to the life they are supposed to live and have good warning systems and are able to outfly our outwith their chaser, I guess you never encountered a SH alone and attacked by titmouses or blackbirds(i saw one yesterday) they are not nice, they actually call up more and more smallbirds and hack it and chase it away. you see in nature there are no predators that dont gett “paid” back from their prey, and no prey that is totaly hlepless, that is not how nature/life works, all is there for a reason, for this reasons.

I think it is great that you feed the small birds, why cant you take under your wings to love and feel that you contribute in feeding another of natures childs?? this winter i have been studying sparrowhawks that overwintered here in a forest close by, imagine out of 21 how many are alive now?? one, a old female, of the rest a couble were poisoned, a great owl(eagle owl) caught some, a goshawk male some others; but most of them died of starvation.

love life and all parts of it, even the parts you dont understand, we are not meant to understand all, but nature knows it’s own will, respect that, and so respect life. hope someday you can see the wonderfull creator that also the SH is, and that you see clearly that values as cruel, bad and evil don’t exist in nature, just in human life and human world, nature IS…..

]]> By: Trish http://birdtablenews.com/2009/01/sparrowhawk-with-its-talons-round-a-blackbird/comment-page-1/#comment-520 Trish Thu, 11 Mar 2010 12:23:10 +0000 http://birdtablenews.com/?p=430#comment-520 This is a very interesting conversation - It is really interesting to see both points of view side by side. I have copied some of your comments and made them into an article yesterday - here is the link http://birdtablenews.com/2010/03/sparrowhawks-and-their-prey/ I must admit that i do think sparrowhawks cause a problem for garden birds. This is because of things I have seen and because of things I have been told. I do understand that nature is wild and the law of survival rules. But when there are more predators taking garden birds something is wrong. I am putting bird food out to help the garden birds build up numbers and survive. The RSPB agree this is a good thing to do. I do not want to put bird food out so that a larger number of sparrowhawks can take advantage of these birds. Yet I can see the point of view that nature is nature and we are only bystanders . Trisha This is a very interesting conversation – It is really interesting to see both points of view side by side. I have copied some of your comments and made them into an article yesterday – here is the link

http://birdtablenews.com/2010/03/sparrowhawks-and-their-prey/

I must admit that i do think sparrowhawks cause a problem for garden birds. This is because of things I have seen and because of things I have been told.

I do understand that nature is wild and the law of survival rules. But when there are more predators taking garden birds something is wrong.

I am putting bird food out to help the garden birds build up numbers and survive. The RSPB agree this is a good thing to do. I do not want to put bird food out so that a larger number of sparrowhawks can take advantage of these birds. Yet I can see the point of view that nature is nature and we are only bystanders . Trisha

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